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Post by Lungsey on Aug 26, 2009 8:11:17 GMT -5
Very good to see more members voice their opinion
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Post by Twinkletoes on Aug 26, 2009 8:21:09 GMT -5
this might not be the right place for this, but there is nowhere else to post it. forgive me if im wrong, and i may well be.. but can someone just confirm this sequence of events- 1. katey uses a not-particularly-controversial-or-inflammatory thread to repeatedly harass a very hardworking mod (again. she has a history of berating the admin staff on this forum, and has made her displeasure at the running of this forum very clear on numerous occasions). meanwhile, she is using a far less prominent thread to sneer at the new soulsavers album and the contribution made by certain participants on the album. 2. katey suggests that she will start a new web resource for Mark Lanegan fans because of all this, err, fuss. 3. onewhiskey forum disappears due, seemingly wholly, to the thread where katey (and possibly one or two other people out of about 1000) kicked up the aforementioned fuss. 4. katey creates a new website in very quick time and advertises it here with a great big smile. so, err... who benefits from all of this..? (i am quite happy for this post to be removed if it is thought to be inappropriate for this thread. i have already made a fairly substantial post on page 2 or 3. as ive said before, i think any serious drama about an internet forum is very silly). I wouldn't join any forum run by Katey (simple) and it rubbed me the wrong way that she would advertise her shit here. (if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen)
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Post by Stephanie on Aug 26, 2009 8:33:01 GMT -5
People only have as much power as you give them. While katey has obviously wanted to have control over Mark fan spaces on the Internet, it's not her doing IMO that this forum is now on ice.
What seems to have taken a hold of this forum is paranoia. It seems priorities have gotten all rearranged--instead of this being seen as a place for fans, at some point along the line it became the perception that this place existed primarily in service of the artists being discussed here. Especially since this is not an official forum run by any of these artists, and was created in conjunction with a site for and dedicated to fans, I find this completely ass backwards.
Much of the major "drama" I have seen on this forum somehow relates back to this shadowy perception of what "THEY" will think of what we are saying and doing. When did we decide to give a small number of people who don't even post here so much power over this place? I think Foz is a great guy who generally makes good mod decisions, but his tendency to want to flatter and please "the powers that be" I think has caused more problems than it has addressed. If we decided that Isobel and Red Ghost were grown women who could handle criticism (and handle the Internet), then so much of this drama would have never gone down.
If we just let katey do her thing and periodically create and delete and create profiles rather than react and escalate a whole lot of other drama would not have gone down. When I get attacked on here, or someone tries to draw me into something, my tendency is to just let it go and not go along with it. As a result, things that could escalate usually just pass. I've gotten criticized for describing this forum as a periodically hostile place, but a spade is a spade, and I see no problem in either me describing what I see or in people and this place being how they are and as it is. Live and let live, or live and let die, etc.
My favorite music forum I've ever been on was the Butthole Surfers forum which I was on for a number of years before I moved on. That place was completely unhinged and free, people posted everything from psychotic rants to endless links to Tubgirl. And it was fucking hilarious and awesome. People got into great huge fights and moved on, people hooked up and talked shit and Paul Leary not only didn't raised a stink but made a presence on the forum posting endlessly about Judge Judy and Boston terriers.
The difference between that place and here, besides the personalities involved, was how it was run. There was moderation, but it was a lot more relaxed. I find again and again here the tendency to not just let stuff go but to escalate it with bigger and bigger reactions makes stuff that might have passed like a fart in the wind into lengthy melodramas.
I personally don't believe that any forum where people are preoccupied with not offending certain parties is ever going to meet its full potential as a haven for free speech and the unfolding of diverse personalities in conversation with one another. And whatever new incarnation of this place arises will continue to be plagued with all of these same tendencies as long as that is the focus of the moderators and administrators--to avoid offense. I say, let people be offended, and move on. Certain extremes should be addressed, such as illegal and truly vicious behavior, but a bit of fighting, name calling, and honest criticism is the lifeblood of a place where freedom of speech is valued.
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Aug 26, 2009 8:43:21 GMT -5
this might not be the right place for this, but there is nowhere else to post it. forgive me if im wrong, and i may well be.. but can someone just confirm this sequence of events- 1. katey uses a not-particularly-controversial-or-inflammatory thread to repeatedly harass a very hardworking mod (again. she has a history of berating the admin staff on this forum, and has made her displeasure at the running of this forum very clear on numerous occasions). meanwhile, she is using a far less prominent thread to sneer at the new soulsavers album and the contribution made by certain participants on the album. 2. katey suggests that she will start a new web resource for Mark Lanegan fans because of all this, err, fuss. 3. onewhiskey forum disappears due, seemingly wholly, to the thread where katey (and possibly one or two other people out of about 1000) kicked up the aforementioned fuss. 4. katey creates a new website in very quick time and advertises it here with a great big smile. so, err... who benefits from all of this..? (i am quite happy for this post to be removed if it is thought to be inappropriate for this thread. i have already made a fairly substantial post on page 2 or 3. as ive said before, i think any serious drama about an internet forum is very silly). Honestly Marc, I have no clue whats going on, this whole thing is a pissing me off to the point where I dont give a fuck anymore, I love this place, but I am sick and tired of all the drama and bullshit, I have no idea what to tell anyone, will this place be here tommarow? I have no clue! Will it get deleted? No Fucking clue, what happened to get it shut down? lots of bullshit drama is my guess? Somehow I have managed to sidestep all the crap that apparently is going on behind the scenes, scenes I am not privy to thank fucking god!!!! Is Stephanie a blowhard? YES! Can Katey be a bitch sometimes? YEP!!!! Are you a pompous ass sometimes? YES!!! Am I a stupid idiot? YES!!!!! But thats whats made this place GREAT over the years, thats what makes this a DISCUSSION forum, its not about kissing someones ass, its about opinions and ideas....good bad wrong stupid intelligent, I like to think this is what this place has always been about and if that offends people then I am really fucking sorry, but I have had it up to my fucking EYEBALLS! LETS ALL GROW THE FUCK UP AND TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT !!! THAT MY FRIENDS AS I SEE IT IS THE CARDINAL RULE ! IF we can all live by that rule then this will be a great place.....PERIOD ! I suspect I will no longer be a mod in about 20 seconds, cheers for all the years, and you all know where to find me if you ever need to hear from this retard again.....hugs and kisses, m0ng0
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Post by richsoul on Aug 26, 2009 8:50:13 GMT -5
As the last post i made has been removed, i feel the need to re-iterate my feelings here, which i'm sure are also the feelings of everyone i work with.
Neither myself or anyone i know asked for the board or any threads to be removed.
I think the board needs to go back up immediately.
Taking it down is a form of censorship.
Censorship in any form sucks & is against everything i believe in.
It's a free world, we're all entitled to our opinions be they positive or negative & the right to express them.
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Post by Stephanie on Aug 26, 2009 8:52:23 GMT -5
Thanks for calling me a blowhard, buttwipe I'm all for adults acting like and treating one another like adults, but as long as I've been here, this place hasn't really been about that. It's been more like a giant dysfunctional playpen of really disaffected toddlers, like some sort of grunge Rugrats of Skid Row... no mod could possibly change all the soiled diapers on here in time to prevent all the tantrums. What a thankless task. I say let people grow up instead, or at least graduate to Pull Ups. ETA: Uh, that was directed at m0ng0 ;D Thanks for popping back in Rich, I agree with you completely and am fucking loving the new Soulsavers record, including "Death Bells" ;D I suspect you haven't been following this forum for too long, but this sort of drama is par for the course, I don't think anyone thinks it's because of you it's been shut down, you obviously handle your own business and speak for yourself ;D
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Post by invisibles on Aug 26, 2009 9:10:38 GMT -5
As the last post i made has been removed, i feel the need to re-iterate my feelings here, which i'm sure are also the feelings of everyone i work with. Neither myself or anyone i know asked for the board or any threads to be removed. I think the board needs to go back up immediately. Taking it down is a form of censorship. Censorship in any form sucks & is against everything i believe in. It's a free world, we're all entitled to our opinions be they positive or negative & the right to express them. thank you for that, rich. a lot of us are very, very much looking forward to seeing you on this tour, and many were hoping to see pictures, videos, reviews and a sneak peek at the setlist for the shows so far to 'get us ready' for it... and also so that those who are missing out on the shows can say 'fuck, i wish i couldve seen them play that'. this is the only place where id expect to see conversations and opinions about all that. 300+ people visited this site in the last 24hrs, right? -marc.
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Post by kingdomsofrain on Aug 26, 2009 9:30:23 GMT -5
I think this thread is unnecessary and its a shame that it exists.
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Post by Stephanie on Aug 26, 2009 9:37:56 GMT -5
I know you've heard it all before I'm sorry for this three year war For the setting up of camps and wire and trenches I'm sorry for the other night I know sorry don't make it right I'm sorry for things I cannot even mention
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry I'm sitting feeling sorry in the Thirsty Dog I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry I'm feeling very sorry in the Thirsty Dog
You keep nailing me back in my box I'm sorry that I keep popping up With my crazy mouth and jangling jester's cap I'm sorry that I ever wrote that book I'm sorry for the way I look But there ain't a lot that I can do about that
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry I'm sitting feeling sorry in the Thirsty Dog I'm sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry I'm feeling very sorry in the Thirsty Dog
Forgive me, baby but don't worry Love is always having to say you're sorry And I am, from my head down to my shoes I'm sorry that I'm always pissed I'm sorry, girl, that I exist And when I look into your eyes I can see you're sorry too
I'm sorry, sorry, sorry I'm sitting feeling sorry in the Thirsty Dog I'm sorry, sorry, sorry I'm feeling very sorry in the Thirsty Dog
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Post by breakerfall on Aug 26, 2009 10:00:52 GMT -5
this might not be the right place for this, but there is nowhere else to post it. forgive me if im wrong, and i may well be.. but can someone just confirm this sequence of events- 1. katey uses a not-particularly-controversial-or-inflammatory thread to repeatedly harass a very hardworking mod (again. she has a history of berating the admin staff on this forum, and has made her displeasure at the running of this forum very clear on numerous occasions). meanwhile, she is using a far less prominent thread to sneer at the new soulsavers album and the contribution made by certain participants on the album. 2. katey suggests that she will start a new web resource for Mark Lanegan fans because of all this, err, fuss. 3. onewhiskey forum disappears due, seemingly wholly, to the thread where katey (and possibly one or two other people out of about 1000) kicked up the aforementioned fuss. 4. katey creates a new website in very quick time and advertises it here with a great big smile. so, err... who benefits from all of this..? (i am quite happy for this post to be removed if it is thought to be inappropriate for this thread. i have already made a fairly substantial post on page 2 or 3. as ive said before, i think any serious drama about an internet forum is very silly). And suddenly things start making sense........
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Post by breakerfall on Aug 26, 2009 10:07:44 GMT -5
I'm going to see the Soulsavers tomorrow and I'm very excited
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Aug 26, 2009 10:08:19 GMT -5
As the last post i made has been removed, i feel the need to re-iterate my feelings here, which i'm sure are also the feelings of everyone i work with. well I did not delete your post, but I am sure it was done with good reason Neither myself or anyone i know asked for the board or any threads to be removed. yeah well they were, probably out of respect for you I think the board needs to go back up immediately. Taking it down is a form of censorship. not your call to make Censorship in any form sucks & is against everything i believe in. agreed It's a free world, we're all entitled to our opinions be they positive or negative & the right to express them. opinions is what got us into this mess to begin with, you see we are in a pickle here Rich, it was someones negative reaction that caused your negative reaction, which caused a further negative reaction from a mod here, when a certain mod reminded us to not react negatively, it brought about further negative reactions, some talked of censorship, but to halt further negative reactions, censorship was thought of by some as a positive way to halt more negative reactions that you had reacted negatively to begin with, but in the haste of one to halt negative reactions we find ourselves at the ultimate negative reaction, the board being shut down due to a "negative reaction" and now believe it or not people are reacting negatively, all because you reacted negatively to a negative comment and the need of some around here to kiss your ass..... Cheers and see you in Portland Rich !
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Post by eyedclaar on Aug 26, 2009 10:14:57 GMT -5
Now I swear, if this doesn't get sorted out right quick, I will arm-wrestle each and every one of you. We just need a side forum called Beyond Thunderdome where anyone who feels like fighting and being negative can hang out.
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Post by Stephanie on Aug 26, 2009 10:20:28 GMT -5
Christ, I'm confused. I thought the controversy over potential offense was due to the Red Ghost thread and the fact that many people do not like her as a vocalist (I don't count myself among them, though I do share the opinion she should have never tried to sing "Praying Ground" because she just cannot occupy the subjective space of that song), and the previous concern caused by whatever messages Foz was being sent regarding the negative opinions here about Isobel Campbell's work. I got the vibe that maybe Red Ghost or someone associated with her had sent a message to Foz, and that's what got this ball rolling?
I thought the whole interaction with Rich was very straightforward. I said some shit, he said some shit, then I said some shit, etc., case closed. That's how things ideally go in my opinion. If this is the fallout from that then it is plainly obvious that the mod / administrator perception of artists' reactions to the discussion here is really distorted as neither I nor Rich (judging from his posts) carried our interaction any further than it went. And both moved on rapidly. Like adults.
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Aug 26, 2009 10:27:05 GMT -5
there is more to this then you know
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Post by Stephanie on Aug 26, 2009 10:33:55 GMT -5
Oh Christ this is turning into a giant galloping trainwreck
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Aug 26, 2009 10:51:24 GMT -5
I thought the whole interaction with Rich was very straightforward. I said some shit, he said some shit, then I said some shit, etc., case closed. That's how things ideally go in my opinion. If this is the fallout from that then it is plainly obvious that the mod / administrator perception of artists' reactions to the discussion here is really distorted as neither I nor Rich (judging from his posts) carried our interaction any further than it went. And both moved on rapidly. Like adults. its funny how much courage you have after the fact......
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Post by kyselina on Aug 26, 2009 10:56:54 GMT -5
As a more irregular member, my thoughts are similar to what several have already said.
This is a great forum for keeping up with what's going on, nowhere else comes even close. And it's a good place for hanging out for those who want to, however often. As for the periodic soap operas, I mostly ignore them (though I couldn't help getting into it with 'e').
My thoughts:
- Separate the forum from onewhiskey.com. Rename it, and if Raeni would rather not deal with the forum, find someone to be the administrator.
- Keep the forum pretty much as it is, but don't worry so much about what artists who may read it may think. Keep it for the fans. People who know (and care) that artists may read the forum may be careful about what they write, and others may not; it's their choice. Lightly moderate, only jump in when something is turning into a train wreck or a member violates basic rules repeatedly (e.g. illegal download links) or repeatedly harasses people beyond the pale.
- Maintain a loose relationship between the forum and onewhiskey.com, in terms of things like Raeni soliciting reviews, photos and so forth to be added to onewhiskey.com. It benefits all of us to have onewhiskey.com maintained as a resource for all things Lanegan.
Perversely, although I miss the forum right now, this outage is helping me in my mission to avoid spoilers about the Soulsavers shows until I see them in L.A.
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Post by katey on Aug 26, 2009 12:08:12 GMT -5
this might not be the right place for this, but there is nowhere else to post it. forgive me if im wrong, and i may well be.. but can someone just confirm this sequence of events- 1. katey uses a not-particularly-controversial-or-inflammatory thread to repeatedly harass a very hardworking mod (again. she has a history of berating the admin staff on this forum, and has made her displeasure at the running of this forum very clear on numerous occasions). meanwhile, she is using a far less prominent thread to sneer at the new soulsavers album and the contribution made by certain participants on the album. 2. katey suggests that she will start a new web resource for Mark Lanegan fans because of all this, err, fuss. 3. onewhiskey forum disappears due, seemingly wholly, to the thread where katey (and possibly one or two other people out of about 1000) kicked up the aforementioned fuss. 4. katey creates a new website in very quick time and advertises it here with a great big smile. so, err... who benefits from all of this..? (i am quite happy for this post to be removed if it is thought to be inappropriate for this thread. i have already made a fairly substantial post on page 2 or 3. as ive said before, i think any serious drama about an internet forum is very silly). I wouldn't join any forum run by Katey (simple) and it rubbed me the wrong way that she would advertise her shit here. (if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen) First not a forum, it's a blog. No joining is necessary. And you don't need to join. That's fine. Secondly, in case you didn't read the fist post in this thread, Raeni ASKED PEOPLE to post links to alternate places for Lanegan fans to interact.
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Post by Claire on Aug 26, 2009 12:08:57 GMT -5
;D
have i just logged onto the chris cornell board by mistake?
this forum needs to go back up. there may be a few opinions put about, but that's the whole point of a forum. Having said that, there is no need for any nastiness towards individuals, but just close the threads that get nasty and weed out the people behind it. Don't freak out and punish the entire board for the actions of a few.
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Post by katey on Aug 26, 2009 12:09:51 GMT -5
this might not be the right place for this, but there is nowhere else to post it. forgive me if im wrong, and i may well be.. but can someone just confirm this sequence of events- 1. katey uses a not-particularly-controversial-or-inflammatory thread to repeatedly harass a very hardworking mod (again. she has a history of berating the admin staff on this forum, and has made her displeasure at the running of this forum very clear on numerous occasions). meanwhile, she is using a far less prominent thread to sneer at the new soulsavers album and the contribution made by certain participants on the album. 2. katey suggests that she will start a new web resource for Mark Lanegan fans because of all this, err, fuss. 3. onewhiskey forum disappears due, seemingly wholly, to the thread where katey (and possibly one or two other people out of about 1000) kicked up the aforementioned fuss. 4. katey creates a new website in very quick time and advertises it here with a great big smile. so, err... who benefits from all of this..? (i am quite happy for this post to be removed if it is thought to be inappropriate for this thread. i have already made a fairly substantial post on page 2 or 3. as ive said before, i think any serious drama about an internet forum is very silly). And suddenly things start making sense........ Yes, obviously I've masterminded some big awful plan to bring down this site so I can be the Queen of All Things Lanegan Online. Anything can be oversimplified to the point that it proves anything... And in doing so you're missing a point. I did not start the Red Ghost thread controversy. You're giving me way too much credit here. If finding someone to lay blame on is more important to you guys than thinking of ways to improve this board, there are major problems here.
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Post by katey on Aug 26, 2009 12:11:33 GMT -5
As the last post i made has been removed, i feel the need to re-iterate my feelings here, which i'm sure are also the feelings of everyone i work with. Neither myself or anyone i know asked for the board or any threads to be removed. I think the board needs to go back up immediately. Taking it down is a form of censorship. Censorship in any form sucks & is against everything i believe in. It's a free world, we're all entitled to our opinions be they positive or negative & the right to express them. Rich, I thought you said you didn't care about this board. It is, however, a sure shame that the owners/mods actions should upset and cause the loss of respect from the artists in such a way. I'm sure someone will be in touch with you to apologize/explain what's going on, and how it's for your benefit in the long run. But if not, don't worry, something new and better will pop up eventually. There are plenty more Lanegan/Soulsavers whatever fans out there who don't post here, and soon there should be other places for them to gather to get news and discuss things.
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Post by ken on Aug 26, 2009 12:30:50 GMT -5
Can't remember who said it above, doesn't matter. But surely the truth is that any discussion forum that is open (and whree you don't have to back up your ill conceived view) is going to see the odd spat. These blow over and life goes on.
I really appreciate this forum and the work done by all to keep it up and moderate it. I'd really like to see it back in pretty much the same shape.
We will not achieve anything by recriminations. We should ask the nice Rich to use his influence to get it up again. He clearly cares enough to be interested. And doesn't give a f*** what we say!
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Post by smokey on Aug 26, 2009 15:44:30 GMT -5
I wouldn't join any forum run by Katey (simple) and it rubbed me the wrong way that she would advertise her shit here. (if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen) First not a forum, it's a blog. No joining is necessary. And you don't need to join. That's fine. Secondly, in case you didn't read the fist post in this thread, Raeni ASKED PEOPLE to post links to alternate places for Lanegan fans to interact. I don't get what the big fuss is about..if I pay for a C.d (or whatever) I have the right to discuss what I like about it or not ..... after I done went and paid my hard stolen cash for it...if I decided I didn't like certain aspects about the music...I'm going to voice my fkn opinion. and Lanegan don't like it.....THEN GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK (then you have the nerve to charge $30 for a cd and you want to complain wtf)....if the boards unfortunately disappears at least on my board there isn't any censorship ..(hey I even made a lanagan section for yall
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Post by katakuri on Aug 26, 2009 16:25:35 GMT -5
this all seems a sad, and rather peculiar state of affairs. even though i've gone from 'frequent flyer' on the original board, to a very part time visitor here in the last 2 or 3 years, all the above posts leave me a bit befuddled. anyway, i made my first post in about a year on monday, re the soulsavers ruby lounge gig on monday night and the merchandise availability, saying i'd report back that night or yesterday morning. i came back, and honestly thought i was responsible for breaking the board. so, the upside is, it wasn't me, but the downside appears to be that 2 mystery people are viewing the main boards, but that i, and most importantly the people who have stayed here for years, and wish to continue doing so, can't. can't you guys just do what other sites do, PM rabble rousers who piss about or abuse people in threads, hand out 24hr bans, or whatever way you see fit to punish the ne'er do wells? monday night was very excellent btw. didn't see any merch though. . doesn't mean there was none i suppose, i just didn't see any. anyway, ignore me.
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