|
Post by raeni on Apr 11, 2012 17:47:31 GMT -5
Just an update: Many board members asked whether or not the newest crop of (and any upcoming) live CDs would be on the webstore for purchase.
At this time, the official word from Mark is that these are 'site only' CDs - as in, available at the shows only, with no guarantee they will ever appear at the online store.
So I guess if you want them, the best way is to keep on asking forum members to pick them up for you. I will sticky this notice if you want to start using this thread for requests, instead of the individual show threads. But whatever works is fine.
|
|
|
Post by calm ocean on Apr 11, 2012 18:05:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the update raeni....should keep things interesting around here. still no update on the video interview with our questions though? (sorry, I realize you probably haven't asked again as I know you've already asked at least once, but just thought he might have mentioned it)
|
|
|
Post by Grumpella on Apr 11, 2012 22:16:15 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Raeni!
|
|
|
Post by obi on Apr 12, 2012 10:52:21 GMT -5
Does it say anywhere on these show-only live CDs that they are not for upload and sharing?
If these are only officially available by attending a show, its a completely different scenario to his other widely and easiliy orderable albums.
So how would Mark feel if we shared the music on these disks with those financially, geographically, physically, mentally, and many other allys unable to rock up to a venue, get inside and purchase these disks?
Doesnt make sense that this kind of sharing would be frowned on.
|
|
|
Post by smasher on Apr 12, 2012 11:19:05 GMT -5
That still makes sense to me : - these are commercialy available discs even if they are limited - we don't share the out of print singles/b-sides etc...
|
|
|
Post by obi on Apr 12, 2012 12:14:11 GMT -5
That still makes sense to me : - these are commercialy available discs even if they are limited - we don't share the out of print singles/b-sides etc... - so? - why not? Not meaning this in any way contentiously or rudely, but I just wondered what the kigic is of not sharing something that is not available to anyone exceot those buying a ticket.
|
|
|
Post by kyselina on Apr 12, 2012 14:41:35 GMT -5
That still makes sense to me : - these are commercialy available discs even if they are limited - we don't share the out of print singles/b-sides etc... Ditto. If nothing else, I believe that arranging sharing/uploading of commercially available CDs that represent income to the artist should not be done on this forum. Unless you want to make raeni's life hell once again... Personally, I've had people ask me to upload a copy of one of the live CDs at various times, and my answer is unless you can find a way to send $20 to Mark and prove that you have, I won't do it.
|
|
|
Post by smasher on Apr 12, 2012 15:26:34 GMT -5
That still makes sense to me : - these are commercialy available discs even if they are limited - we don't share the out of print singles/b-sides etc... - so? - why not? Not meaning this in any way contentiously or rudely, but I just wondered what the kigic is of not sharing something that is not available to anyone exceot those buying a ticket. I see you're not saying this rudely, and I think it's interesting to discuss this, no worry The notion of availability is not crucial to me in this matter, the logic is that the artist expects to earn money from these CDs and that free sharing does not earn Mark any money. But I agree that, if it is a financial issue, it's not clear why Mark would not make them more widely available after the tour is over...
|
|
|
Post by Grumpella on Apr 12, 2012 16:21:27 GMT -5
That still makes sense to me : - these are commercialy available discs even if they are limited - we don't share the out of print singles/b-sides etc... - so? - why not? Not meaning this in any way contentiously or rudely, but I just wondered what the kigic is of not sharing something that is not available to anyone exceot those buying a ticket. We can discuss and argue and agree and disagree till the cow jumps over the moon, this is what it comes down to - we are watched by Mark's management. If they say no sharing, then we don't share. Otherwise, Raeni catches hell and the future of her website and this forum is in jeopardy. This tends to become a very delicate issue for that reason.
|
|
|
Post by calm ocean on Apr 12, 2012 18:06:35 GMT -5
Does it say anywhere on these show-only live CDs that they are not for upload and sharing? If these are only officially available by attending a show, its a completely different scenario to his other widely and easiliy orderable albums. So how would Mark feel if we shared the music on these disks with those financially, geographically, physically, mentally, and many other allys unable to rock up to a venue, get inside and purchase these disks? Doesnt make sense that this kind of sharing would be frowned on. i'm not sure what other items are only available at the merch stand, but if there were t-shirts availalble and you couldn't get in to get one, i think it would still be frowned on to manufacture counterfeit t-shirts etc.
|
|
|
Post by kyselina on Apr 12, 2012 19:06:19 GMT -5
As a fan of quite a few lesser known bands & musicians, I want them to at least make enough of a living to stay in the business. From talking to musicians and their friends & families (as well as reading about the economics of the music industry), I know that they tend to get a very small cut from sales of albums/songs (physical & digital) and streaming, etc, the label & various other players get a big chunk of the $$. The main way that the musicians get a decent income stream is touring and merch.
I know we all think Mark is not a "lesser known" musician (Dulli once referred to Mark & himself as "cult" musicians)...but most people say "Who?" if I mention Mark's name. I am happy to pay for the live CDs, it seems like a win-win for some of us - the rabid fans get live music and Mark gets a decent cut of the sales.
And even though the label may not be involved in the live CDs, it is still Mark's intellectual property...
(Disclaimer: As a software developer for most of my life, I'm not big on software piracy either...)
|
|
|
Post by raeni on Apr 12, 2012 21:00:24 GMT -5
None of the live CDs Mark is selling should be offered for download from anywhere near this board. If you think this sort of thing is OK to do no one is going to change your mind so I don't need to hear any more discussions/reasons/justifications - just don't do it or talk about it here. It's stealing.
|
|
|
Post by comejanuary on Apr 12, 2012 21:59:20 GMT -5
A better description would be... a frustrating situation.
But there are always audience recordings. Many are quite good. Who needs $20 incomplete soundbaords, anyways?
|
|
|
Post by raeni on Apr 13, 2012 0:16:28 GMT -5
still no update on the video interview with our questions though? (sorry, I realize you probably haven't asked again as I know you've already asked at least once, but just thought he might have mentioned it) I did ask - there is no date yet, but I was told it will probably go up on something called paste.com (don't know what that's about yet), and then we'll get the link.
|
|
|
Post by kingdomsofrain on Apr 13, 2012 4:24:53 GMT -5
Its a sad situation when the real fans of Mark lanegan have to beg others from all over the world to get them cd's all the time. When you add postage and packaging costs to already expensive (and as already commented incomplete cd's) its a bittersweet pill to swallow (although one we are all happy to swallow constantly).
I completely 100% agree with Raeni that these cd's SHOULD NOT be posted on the site and have stated such in the past but the whole situation seems rather dismissive of the genuine fans. A lot of people picking up these discs at the shows are just looking for a 'souvenir' from the night and probably dropped them whilst trying to walk home pissed. They are not fans, the people talking and texting/playing scrabble on their phones throughout the shows i've witnessed over the last few years should have no right to purchase these discs.
|
|
|
Post by obi on Apr 13, 2012 4:47:35 GMT -5
I agree mate, but I'm still not clear on whether Mark and his management are happy for us to share the actual digital content of the disks or not - can someone close to them ask? It would seem fine to me to sell the physical package to fans who want that souvenir, and to simultaneously allow fans unable to get to the gigs to have access to the music. The two are not the same thing - one has aesthetic artefact value along with the sonics and the other is just the sonics.
Mark will sell just as many cds if he allows the audio to be shared as he would do if he didn't - the people who will buy a souvenir cd and get it signed are going to do that whether they can download it or not.
At least can someone - Raeni? - let them know our thoughts on this? Policies are not handed down from God and can be changed, you know. These things are fluid.
|
|
|
Post by chaosu on Apr 13, 2012 5:02:22 GMT -5
Its a sad situation when the real fans of Mark lanegan have to beg others from all over the world to get them cd's all the time. When you add postage and packaging costs to already expensive (and as already commented incomplete cd's) its a bittersweet pill to swallow (although one we are all happy to swallow constantly). sad, beg, bittersweet, swallow getting these cds for me is none of the words above but joy. maybe try changing your attitude a bit?
|
|
|
Post by LostCause on Apr 13, 2012 6:50:33 GMT -5
Mark will sell just as many cds if he allows the audio to be shared as he would do if he didn't - the people who will buy a souvenir cd and get it signed are going to do that whether they can download it or not. I agree that people who want a signed copy will buy at a show but for many having a signed copy is not as important as having the music. I cannot see any way that it would not affect the number of CDs sold. If I had the music that had been shared and I was at a show, it is not nearly as important to have a physical copy. I am not like some here who have the bobblehead and have all the vinyl and everything signed. All I have is the music and maybe a few magazine saved. Once again, I cannot see how file sharing would NOT affect the number of CDs sold. It is a moot point because Raeni had said what will not happen here (stealing of Mark's work) so any attempts to rationalize doing so will get nowhere or get you banned I would imagine.
|
|
|
Post by obi on Apr 13, 2012 7:33:59 GMT -5
I;m not trying to rationalise doing it, I'm asking if anyone has asked Mark and his team why they would object to it.
|
|
|
Post by calm ocean on Apr 13, 2012 7:50:47 GMT -5
Obi: If you think this sort of thing is OK to do no one is going to change your mind so I don't need to hear any more discussions/reasons/justifications - just don't do it or talk about it here. It's stealing.
|
|
|
Post by obi on Apr 13, 2012 8:02:58 GMT -5
So I can't even ask a question? Right, ok. This forum is really strange and scared to death of things, it's bizarre and totally anti the spirit of Mark Lanegan's music.
Fair enough if he doesnt want us to share the music of his live cds - I was just asking how anyone knows that he doesnt want us to do that, as well as also registering my bewilderment at that stance.
I'm not physically offering anything to you or to anyone, and nor will I, unless given the green light by Mark Lanegan or his team.
Is that clear enough?
Ok, rant over - see you in better threads.
|
|
|
Post by calm ocean on Apr 13, 2012 8:04:54 GMT -5
you asked it several times. i agree with raeni. no answer you receive will change your mind. you are beating a dead horse.
|
|
|
Post by obi on Apr 13, 2012 8:57:48 GMT -5
Beating a dead horse? Is that a new Mark song? lol
Ok, point taken, I'll move on. Here's to more beautiful music in the future, as widely available as possible, while remaining within the sanctions of the artist!
|
|
|
Post by kingdomsofrain on Apr 13, 2012 9:01:06 GMT -5
Its a sad situation when the real fans of Mark lanegan have to beg others from all over the world to get them Cd's all the time. When you add postage and packaging costs to already expensive (and as already commented incomplete Cd's) its a bittersweet pill to swallow (although one we are all happy to swallow constantly). sad, beg, bittersweet, swallow getting these Cd's for me is none of the words above but joy. maybe try changing your attitude a bit? There is nothing wrong with my attitude I just have more important things to do with my time than constantly chase down live Cd's i would simply like to buy. Why should forum members have to take lots of money to shows and risk losing/having their money stolen/purchases stolen/damaged etc just so they can get Cd's for you or me? I bet your 'romantic' attitude would soon change if you couldn't get hold of one of these discs/vinyl's. I spent years and years happily trading and tracking down bootlegs I just don't want to do the same for 'Semi-official releases'.
|
|
|
Post by calm ocean on Apr 13, 2012 9:11:14 GMT -5
sometimes, my two year old throws a tantrum when I tell him no, but he is getting pretty good at realizing you can't always have everything you want.
|
|