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Post by wellwater on Oct 26, 2013 4:00:23 GMT -5
The live version of blues run the game is from the 2000 show at Lola's Lounge Portland.
The 30 second snippets are mouthwatering.
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Post by kingdomsofrain on Oct 26, 2013 4:44:57 GMT -5
I appreciate that LITA is a quality label and that postage is very expensive but i think $58 for postage to the UK is still a bit much (i'm not importing a rhino or a sumo wrestler). I think $36 for the 3 vinyl set(yellow) is extremely good value however. Overall $95 doesn't strike me as that bad (i've paid far more for 'less' music) when I converted it to my beloved £. Works out about 60 quid, so £20 a vinyl in effect. That's what i keep telling myself anyway...
Im annoyed us diehard UK fans can't get hold of the red vinyl release but I will have to console myself with the yellow and black LP sets plus the 2cd.
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Post by username2500 on Oct 26, 2013 5:04:43 GMT -5
what is "tip on"? (I AM going to sleep now) It's a weirdy old bookbinding term that has recently found its way into providing selling points for records What it basically is, is that all the external artwork is a separate layer printed on high-quality paper which is then glued onto the blank card sleeve, as opposed to printing direct onto card. This looks better, and also strengthens the cover. I'll go on about the other stuff later, but I've got a blistering headache so am going back to sleep for a bit... awake again, thanks for info
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Post by silence on Oct 26, 2013 8:22:18 GMT -5
Not picking on you here foriamtheway, it's just that all the main points are in your post I don't believe it actually costs that much to have it shipped. Sadly, it really won't be far off. Size and weight dictates that this will be treated as a Package rather than a Large Letter or Small Packet, and postal companies worldwide have long since wised up to the fact that lots of people buy stuff from overseas now, and have raised their prices. Good quality (and you need very good quality given how they're sent) mailers for records are still a bit of a niche, so aren't cheap to buy. Larger labels have sussed this and are now making their own (Sub Pop's are gorgeous, and not a little bit silly), others will follow suit. Yes, yes and yes. However the thing with vinyl pressing is that, where it used to be a mass industry, it's now a bespoke affair using machinery that hasn't been manufactured since the late 1980s. Add to that the skilled workforce (especially in the Mastering stage which would take up too much room here! In short: the not many good people who can do this can charge what they want) required and the time it takes to process different colours in not many machines, and it's very time and cost consuming. Environmentally-speaking, we shouldn't be touching vinyl with a bargepole anyway given the amount of oil that is used in the process (especially in this age of 180g silliness). Horrible stuff. In this specific case, this will already have passed through several licencing agreements from all labels and publishers providing the rights to make this record (all of which cost money), and I would imagine that a US-only label such as LitA would be prohibited to then re-licence the whole thing to a European 3rd party for processing and release. For little labels, this is the future. Subscriptions and pre-orders guarantee a revenue stream - sometimes to ensure that the thing gets made in the first place! They can be fun things for the fans (one that may or may or not happen in the near-ish future will have a few people here salivating), and they also are a good way for labels to gauge support for a project so they don't waste cash on surplus stock. This does have the downside that ebay flippers get to have a field day, but that's where we here come in to let everyone know what's going on, how much it's all going to cost and how we can cut costs for each other (more on that in a bit. Or would another thread be a better idea?). And yes. The cash goes to the labels. More than would go to them if you bought from a shop, and much more than would go to them if you buy from Amazon. Aye, and there's the rub. The vinyl market, by way of cost, shipping, availability and general snobbery, is seen s "a collector's thing". And we're expected to buy it and like it. Much needs to change to bring the price down, but until it becomes a mass-market thing again (which it won't), the prices will remain high. The plus side to this is that you'll have a version that will sound better and in theory last longer than the coloured version. All coloured vinyl is the same thing - clear vinyl with dye/waxy bits - and, although it's a lot better than it used to be, is still no substitute for the black stuff. Never ever ever go near Glow In The Dark vinyl (it melts) or picture discs (eww eww eww)
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Post by silence on Oct 26, 2013 8:29:11 GMT -5
CD/Black Vinyl types will be well catered for worldwide as these are well-stocked. It pays to shop around though - LITA's next release is (handily enough for this!) a 2xCD, 3xVinyl affair, out on Monday. Pricing varies wildly, and this will almost certainly be the case for the Lanegan one, if not higher due to demand: AmazonPiccadillyRough TradeIt'll probably help to list stores and prices for the Anthology when they become available so that anyone unable/unwilling to pay the label cost, and I guess some Vinyl Buddying would be in order so that those who live near such stores can assist those who don't
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Post by frankblack on Oct 26, 2013 11:17:33 GMT -5
Apologies for not reading through the whole thread.
Is the CD version of this going to be available in the UK or do I need to order it from overseas?
A word of caution to foriamtheway with ordering overseas to the UK. I got stung by UK Customs for an extra £15 (An £8 handling charge + a duty charge based on the price of the item) when I ordered David Bowie's Japanese version of The Next Day. This charge kicks in automatically for goods over £16 in value I believe.
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Post by silence on Oct 26, 2013 11:52:46 GMT -5
LITA CDs are usually very easy to source from most online UK stores, and for fairly reasonable amounts (£12-15).
And yes. Customs is a huge pain, but many vendors will work round this where they can... UK Threshold is now £15 for commercial merchandise shipments and is based on the figure declared on the CN22 (little green square thing on the outside of the parcel). Most places tend to declare about $18-20 to stay under this, and if they're feeling especially nice, they will also declare the package as a Gift, which ups the exempt threshold to £40. Amazon do not - they always declare as merchandise, and at the full rate. Vinyl records are Duty Free as far as I know, but VAT is still payable at 20% of the value of the goods plus the value of the shipping cost. Given the cost of shipping for these, this is a big risk - I've ordered 2 at a total goods & shipping value of $142.20, so at an exchange rate of 1.60, I'd be looking at another £17.75, plus 8 quid for processing.
Them's the breaks - I get a lot of vinyl from the US (as price plus shipping is usually cheaper than buying from a UK store), and have been done by Customs about once for every 30 deliveries. I'm guessing as this will be a larger shipment than normal, this might happen again...
(edited because I can't add up)
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Post by Grumpella on Oct 26, 2013 13:52:46 GMT -5
This thread has gotten so educational, and I'm not being sarcastic, this HAS gotten REALLY interesting! Too bad a buddy system for the colored vinyl isn't possible. Colored vinyl being less quality be damned, though, I'd love the red version - I don't play my records much, anyway.
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Post by wheels132 on Oct 26, 2013 15:37:47 GMT -5
The live version of blues run the game is from the 2000 show at Lola's Lounge Portland. The 30 second snippets are mouthwatering. Yes, yes they are. BTW, Silence you're awesome, thanks for the many clarifications. Going to preorder mine soon, I knew shipping would be a bitch--just the normal pains of ordering something from overseas. Can't wait to see the finished product...
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Post by spentbullets on Oct 26, 2013 15:57:15 GMT -5
The clip of Following the Rain sounds as if Mark / they just used the version currently circulating from the demos with no sonic upgrade like had been done for all the others: Wheels, Day and Night etc
Otherwise all clips esp Blues for D and Grey Goes Black sound great
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Post by kingdomsofrain on Oct 26, 2013 16:11:52 GMT -5
The clip of Following the Rain sounds as if Mark / they just used the version currently circulating from the demos with no sonic upgrade like had been done for all the others: Wheels, Day and Night etc Otherwise all clips esp Blues for D and Grey Goes Black sound great yep and also blues run the game from the unofficial lola's boot! weird...
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Post by silence on Oct 26, 2013 16:34:25 GMT -5
Much obliged wheels132! To be fair, it's about time the US people got things a bit easier than the rest of us as the UK in particular does very well out of Mr Lanegan with regard to frequency of shows and availability of merchandise, so it's about time we suffered!
I am however having to keep as far as possible from the soundclips - given the amount of money it's costing me, I want to make sure that the first time I listen to this is when it hits my turntable, hopefully in one piece when it gets here! Glad he's gone with LITA as well to be honest, collecting this stuff together does feel like a labour of love so it's fitting that he's picked such a label to put this out on as they'll really (sorry) take care of it.
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Post by raeni on Oct 26, 2013 16:44:58 GMT -5
Yes, thanks everyone for the factual input - it's easy to get lost for those of us who don't ship/buy a lot of things. I know I don't know anything about those prices, and everything sounds high to me.
But in case anyone wonders, Matt Sullivan from Light in the Attic, who has been working on getting this project going for several years now, IS a stand-up guy and a real fan. He wanted this project made because he feels Mark and his music deserve it, and he's been very concerned about putting out a quality product that the fans will truly appreciate and enjoy. It's not just one of those "I have to get it to be complete, or because it has 1 new song on it" things. And Mark himself is very careful and particular about what gets put out there, so you know this took a lot to coordinate.
I can't wait to get it myself!
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Post by foriamtheway on Oct 26, 2013 16:48:56 GMT -5
Not picking on you here foriamtheway, it's just that all the main points are in your post It's okay, I deserve it, I overreacted A word of caution to foriamtheway with ordering overseas to the UK. Thanks for the warning, but actually, I'm not from the UK
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Post by frankblack on Oct 26, 2013 17:35:58 GMT -5
A word of caution to foriamtheway with ordering overseas to the UK. Thanks for the warning, but actually, I'm not from the UK [/quote] I was trying to follow a post above and thought you started it. Obviously got wrong person.
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Post by calm ocean on Oct 26, 2013 19:51:41 GMT -5
so are there at least any known working coupon codes to soften the blow a little? (and I agree with grumpella - this thread has been quite informative!)
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Post by wheels132 on Oct 26, 2013 20:29:06 GMT -5
The clip of Following the Rain sounds as if Mark / they just used the version currently circulating from the demos with no sonic upgrade like had been done for all the others: Wheels, Day and Night etc Otherwise all clips esp Blues for D and Grey Goes Black sound great yep and also blues run the game from the unofficial lola's boot! weird... Yeah I noticed that too regarding Following The Rain. Sounds exactly like the version I have now...strange. Many of the clips sound gorgeous though, very intrigued by the vocal version of Blues For D and Leaving New River Blues. Sounds like Mockingbirds and Wild Flowers have been beefed up a bit sonically, fuck yeah
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Post by m2 on Oct 27, 2013 8:19:36 GMT -5
yep and also blues run the game from the unofficial lola's boot! weird... Yeah I noticed that too regarding Following The Rain. Sounds exactly like the version I have now...strange. Many of the clips sound gorgeous though, very intrigued by the vocal version of Blues For D and Leaving New River Blues. Sounds like Mockingbirds and Wild Flowers have been beefed up a bit sonically, fuck yeah The 'beefing up' of Mockingbirds and Wild Flowers worries me, since it suggests the tracks have undergone more modern mastering/remastering... ie, compressing the songs and strangling the dynamics out of subtle music in a 'loudness wars' style rather than trusting the listener to set their volume appropriately. I hope I'm wrong. It's hard to judge from the quality of the clips, so we'll see, I guess. Hopefully, the mastering is a tasteful job that's just to even out the differences between the different albums/eras of recordings and to give the album a more consistent 'feel'. I'm sure most of it will be unnoticeable to most. Maybe the clips are from the CD master, and hopefully the vinyl will have been appropriately mastered for the format... I've always got my Glitterhouse version of Winding Sheet, so it's no skin off my nose, really I'll hopefully be getting the vinyl (yellow, black.. who knows), but my feeling with recent vinyl is that much of it is digital at source and mastered for CD (and at CD quality) before it even reaches mastering or pressing for vinyl*... (and if it isn't just a digital transfer, a big deal is made of this - a la MBV noting every stage of recording and mastering being analogue and Soulsavers delaying the release of The Light The Dead See because of their unhappiness with the first vinyl master). As for Following The Rain's audio quality - can we assume this means the masters no longer exist and that this is the best version available... or perhaps the snippet is just grabbed off the 'net and not representative of the version that'll be released? I'm guessing the former. Likewise with the recording of Blues Runs The Game - it's a bootleg of a gig that wasn't recorded at better quality, so that's the definitive documented version. Just reading my comment back, and I always sound like I'm being negative - it's more thoughts, concerns and curiosity, honestly. I'm genuinely really looking forward to listening to the and seeing/holding/reading the entire package. It seems like a lovingly curated piece of work with some really nice unreleased tracks. --- *This is one of the reasons I've had zero interest in the live vinyl, which, interestingly, no one seems to have mentioned the sonic characteristics of the live records or done any comparison between them and the CDs. It just seems to be a fetishist/collector's thing for most people, and there's seemingly no information out there on the quality of the original source recording which it is safe to assume is all digital (straight from the desk to Pro Tools or similar, at unknown resolution). Please let me know if there's any info out there, as I'm genuinely interested.
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Post by silence on Oct 27, 2013 9:08:45 GMT -5
Glad you brought up both the mastering and MBV! Their tame mastering engineer is a guy called Noel Summerville, who used to work for the majors when they employed proper laboratories for this sort of thing and now works out of a shed in his garden on one of the few machines capable of doing this stuff properly. He's just finished doing the Boards of Canada remasters on 120g vinyl (when everyone else is eulogising 180g as the only way stuff can sound good anymore), and they sound incredible, as does his work on mbv and Tomorrow's Harvest earlier this year. I imagine this sort of service isn't cheap, yet he's in constant demand, as is anyone who still has a decent lathe nowadays.
I suppose the worry is that there's this whole generational gap where the skills weren't taught, the technology unavailable and the unwillingness of the industry to invest, that this isn't vinyl's resurgence but its final hurrah.
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Post by m2 on Oct 27, 2013 15:50:29 GMT -5
Good enough for me.
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Post by cameron4321 on Oct 27, 2013 22:37:36 GMT -5
Here is what I find odd. I'm a Light in the Attic subscriber. They do a great job emailing their members when something goes on sale and usually give them first dibs on the colored variant. Granted, we already get a colored variant (which is nice), but for some reason, on this release, from what I can tell, there was not one email about it's availability. Maybe they realize that members are gobbling up both colored versions and flipping them on Ebay, or maybe they just think the subscribers already get something special....or maybe on only on the less popular sellers, they reach out to the subscribers to help move the units, but again, I got nothing and again, they send out alot of marketing when something is up for preorder. As of right now, it isn't even up on their front page....which is odd!
Regardless, I didn't get any notice that the yellow vinyl was on sale, but I will say this...I like that they keep it to only 150 unique pressings, but I wonder if the yellow vinyl with only 150 pressed is actually "more collectable" than the red variant. Translation, are there more subscribers that receive the red version than the yellow variant option?
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Post by wheels132 on Oct 28, 2013 10:16:24 GMT -5
m2, totally with you on the remaster concern, I don't think you came off negative at all. While I'm not an engineer, I've been listening to music long enough to distinguish between a shitty remaster and a quality one. I have faith that this will be a good one, especially now that silence has provided even MORE valuable info . I was just initially excited to hear that the Winding Sheet songs were a little more audible than the old version we have, which could stand to use a subtle remaster. Anything that is compressed to hell (as most modern day remasters are) sound like total shit. A great recent one I can think of off the top of my head is the Mad Season re-release earlier this year. Also, I think you're probably right regarding the master file for Following the Rain, which is why it sounds like we have the straight-up demo version on this release. In all honesty, I prefer demos over a classic song that's been sickeningly compressed!
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Post by silence on Oct 28, 2013 12:46:11 GMT -5
btw, I wasn't saying that Noel was doing this (I'm guessing they do something in-house), just illustrating what a pain in the arse it all is
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Post by m2 on Oct 28, 2013 13:14:25 GMT -5
btw, I wasn't saying that Noel was doing this (I'm guessing they do something in-house), just illustrating what a pain in the arse it all is Ah, I misunderstood. So we don't actually know about the anthology mastering?
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Post by wheels132 on Oct 28, 2013 13:21:59 GMT -5
btw, I wasn't saying that Noel was doing this (I'm guessing they do something in-house), just illustrating what a pain in the arse it all is It's all good, I still have faith that they won't fuck up the mastering on this one! I hope one day we see "proper" remasters/reissues of the Trees albums...
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