Post by raeni on Aug 24, 2009 2:05:30 GMT -5
Well, the forum part of onewhiskey.com has now been alive for 5 years. The following lengthy post is divided into sections with titles, so you know which parts you want to read and which to skip. I encourage you to read them all.
THIS FORUM: HOW AND WHY IT CAME TO BE
In 2004, during the Bubblegum tour, the forum at the official marklanegan.com site was closed. As some may remember, this happened after a poster did something disrespectful - who cares what, but it happened.
At the time, it seemed fans really needed a place to connect, to be able to meet up at shows on the tour, buy/sell tickets, find rides and places to stay. So the onewhiskey.com forum was started. I started it to compliment the main site, which at that time was about 7 years old. The main site has endeavored to be an ongoing archive of the musical career of Mark Lanegan, set up to give fans a place to share their experiences, and give new fans a place to find info on all that's gone before.
THIS FORUM, 2009
I want to thank the many members, musicians, and visitors who have participated in this forum since it's beginning - it's been fun, educational, inspirational, frustrating, annoying - it's been a good time. Going forward from here, it's time for some changes and some branching out.
The main forum will be returning online shortly, and you will see some changes. Some areas may not return, some may be different. It is my personal decision to make these changes, for a number of reasons.
1. The focus of the forum has shifted so that it is no longer a compliment to the main site. onewhiskey.com has been around for 12 years now, and a new fan coming to the site to learn about Mark's music might be very confused: in 1998, Mark did a solo tour with 19 shows. There are fan reviews listed for 13 of them. By 2004, his tour schedule was much more extensive, and there are reviews for most of those shows too. Shows done in recent years have large lists of dates - and few to no reviews for any of them. This might make people think no one is going, which is far from the truth. They might also think no one is writing articles about any of his recent project - again not the truth.
I would very much like to get back to having onewhiskey.com be a complete fan site. Fans from everywhere, and in the past, forum members, have been an invaluable resource for what is going on out there. I have been asking for years for people to continue to contribute to the site, but fans have abandoned it for the ease of posting these things themselves on the forum. Unfortunately, things fans posted in 2006 are now buried and basically not retrievable, unless you know just what to search for (or have a LOT of time to sift). I am asking, please, for all the fans who still want to contribute to the site to please do so. Let's catch it up so that it is current, lively, and reflects well on Mark himself - it is a desire to know about and spread the word about his music that's brought us here, right?
2. The forum has become difficult to maintain as it is today. As the time I had available to monitor the forum got smaller, Mark's fan base got larger. Some people stepped up to mod the boards, to try to make as many people happy as possible. These people have helped me very much, have improved the culture on here, and have worked hard to try to appreciate where people are coming from. It is not possible to please everyone all the time. I think most of us understand that. This is just a forum - not life and death. So when people repeatedly bash moderators for doing what they are supposed to do, it's very difficult. This forum is pretty free and easy in allowing people to talk about what they want; it's very disheartening to see people who care about it being belittled and harassed because someone disagrees with their decisions.
3. The forum has eclipsed the site in the eyes of the musicians involved in the projects we all like. And it's not good. Recent events are NOT the first time in the past few years that musicians who are making the music (that we like to hear and discuss) upset. There have been several instances of particpating musicians who thought 'onewhiskey' meant the forum, and they had derogatory comments to make about it. Musicians used to be willing to contribute to the site. Now many of them prefer to keep it at arm's length. They do not distinguish between the 'archive' and the 'chat room'. I want to encourage their participation, and that's not happening any longer.
WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT THIS?
I would like to invite and encourage people to make this forum into 'spin-offs'! I feel very strongly about the main site being a focal point with as much archival information on it as possible. But I have come to realize that when it comes to discussion groups, one size does NOT fit all. Everyone has their own ideas about what is important in rules, topics, etc, and people become easily frustrated when things don't turn out they way they envisioned.
To everyone who would like to start their own related forum, I will, without prejudice, add a link (probably a whole section at the top of the links page) on the main site to your forum. Please do NOT think of this as anyone being asked to leave - think of this as an opportunity to create and have places to go that you ENJOY going to. Some people like to chat and be 'off-topic' a bit more. Some people are into very technical musical info. Some people are into spiritual or emotional issues found in music. Go out and make a forum and talk about it! If you love one forum and hate another, fine - go where you like. No one has to be angry and frustrated at how things are run, because there is always someplace more compatible to your personality out there.
Be honest with yourself. Are you always at loggerheads with others on this forum? Are there 5 or 6 people you just adore, but you think the rest are idiots? Do you think things are unfair, or not good enough? These are all signs that you are outgrowing this place, and need to try running your own place.
WHAT SHOULD WE DO RIGHT NOW?
Use this single thread to toss out a few ideas for some forums. If you plan to start a forum, tell us about it here. If you have an idea but you're not sure if there's an interest, post it here and others can PM you if they are interested. Please do use the PM to respond to each other - it will be the best way to let new forum owners keep track of who is interested, as well as not cluttering the main topic. Try to format your ideas simply: I am starting "markshair.proboards.com" A discussion group about Mark's hairstyles throughout his career, beginning with the Screaming Trees and including styles he has adopted while working with other bands. Please pm me if you are interested. Something like that should do it.
Please refrain from commenting negatively on the site ideas listed.
Please refrain from posting any angry, spiteful, disappointed, or other nasty remarks here. The main forum will return after revamping. This is not a criticism of any one person or groups of people. We have ALL (myself included) done good and bad on this forum. It is simply time for a change - and for opportunities to open up for people to be part of forums on their own terms, using their own creativity and sensibilities.
Please refrain from publicly badmouthing this forum, the site, or anyone connected with either. Please don't harass anyone connected with the forum over PM or email. It's no one's fault. Say what you want to your friends in private, but please show some class. No one likes a bitter divorce, but a mutual agreement to move on is fine.
Please do continue to support the main site - and help help help me catch it up and fill it up with everything that's been missing these past few years. It is supposed to be for the fans, after all.
Please do post ideas for what you'd like to see on this site when it's revamped - but please think this through. If your idea is big and specific enough to be it's own forum, go for it! If you just want to say you like the chatterbox coffeeshop and want it to stay, say so!
Anything that gets posted to this thread that is angry, hateful, or disrespectful will be removed. It's time to move on. You don't have to defend your point of view now. You don't have to make anyone feel bad, or good. It is what it is, and all that.
Once again, thanks to everyone for your continued support and participation.
THIS FORUM: HOW AND WHY IT CAME TO BE
In 2004, during the Bubblegum tour, the forum at the official marklanegan.com site was closed. As some may remember, this happened after a poster did something disrespectful - who cares what, but it happened.
At the time, it seemed fans really needed a place to connect, to be able to meet up at shows on the tour, buy/sell tickets, find rides and places to stay. So the onewhiskey.com forum was started. I started it to compliment the main site, which at that time was about 7 years old. The main site has endeavored to be an ongoing archive of the musical career of Mark Lanegan, set up to give fans a place to share their experiences, and give new fans a place to find info on all that's gone before.
THIS FORUM, 2009
I want to thank the many members, musicians, and visitors who have participated in this forum since it's beginning - it's been fun, educational, inspirational, frustrating, annoying - it's been a good time. Going forward from here, it's time for some changes and some branching out.
The main forum will be returning online shortly, and you will see some changes. Some areas may not return, some may be different. It is my personal decision to make these changes, for a number of reasons.
1. The focus of the forum has shifted so that it is no longer a compliment to the main site. onewhiskey.com has been around for 12 years now, and a new fan coming to the site to learn about Mark's music might be very confused: in 1998, Mark did a solo tour with 19 shows. There are fan reviews listed for 13 of them. By 2004, his tour schedule was much more extensive, and there are reviews for most of those shows too. Shows done in recent years have large lists of dates - and few to no reviews for any of them. This might make people think no one is going, which is far from the truth. They might also think no one is writing articles about any of his recent project - again not the truth.
I would very much like to get back to having onewhiskey.com be a complete fan site. Fans from everywhere, and in the past, forum members, have been an invaluable resource for what is going on out there. I have been asking for years for people to continue to contribute to the site, but fans have abandoned it for the ease of posting these things themselves on the forum. Unfortunately, things fans posted in 2006 are now buried and basically not retrievable, unless you know just what to search for (or have a LOT of time to sift). I am asking, please, for all the fans who still want to contribute to the site to please do so. Let's catch it up so that it is current, lively, and reflects well on Mark himself - it is a desire to know about and spread the word about his music that's brought us here, right?
2. The forum has become difficult to maintain as it is today. As the time I had available to monitor the forum got smaller, Mark's fan base got larger. Some people stepped up to mod the boards, to try to make as many people happy as possible. These people have helped me very much, have improved the culture on here, and have worked hard to try to appreciate where people are coming from. It is not possible to please everyone all the time. I think most of us understand that. This is just a forum - not life and death. So when people repeatedly bash moderators for doing what they are supposed to do, it's very difficult. This forum is pretty free and easy in allowing people to talk about what they want; it's very disheartening to see people who care about it being belittled and harassed because someone disagrees with their decisions.
3. The forum has eclipsed the site in the eyes of the musicians involved in the projects we all like. And it's not good. Recent events are NOT the first time in the past few years that musicians who are making the music (that we like to hear and discuss) upset. There have been several instances of particpating musicians who thought 'onewhiskey' meant the forum, and they had derogatory comments to make about it. Musicians used to be willing to contribute to the site. Now many of them prefer to keep it at arm's length. They do not distinguish between the 'archive' and the 'chat room'. I want to encourage their participation, and that's not happening any longer.
WHAT CAN YOU DO ABOUT THIS?
I would like to invite and encourage people to make this forum into 'spin-offs'! I feel very strongly about the main site being a focal point with as much archival information on it as possible. But I have come to realize that when it comes to discussion groups, one size does NOT fit all. Everyone has their own ideas about what is important in rules, topics, etc, and people become easily frustrated when things don't turn out they way they envisioned.
To everyone who would like to start their own related forum, I will, without prejudice, add a link (probably a whole section at the top of the links page) on the main site to your forum. Please do NOT think of this as anyone being asked to leave - think of this as an opportunity to create and have places to go that you ENJOY going to. Some people like to chat and be 'off-topic' a bit more. Some people are into very technical musical info. Some people are into spiritual or emotional issues found in music. Go out and make a forum and talk about it! If you love one forum and hate another, fine - go where you like. No one has to be angry and frustrated at how things are run, because there is always someplace more compatible to your personality out there.
Be honest with yourself. Are you always at loggerheads with others on this forum? Are there 5 or 6 people you just adore, but you think the rest are idiots? Do you think things are unfair, or not good enough? These are all signs that you are outgrowing this place, and need to try running your own place.
WHAT SHOULD WE DO RIGHT NOW?
Use this single thread to toss out a few ideas for some forums. If you plan to start a forum, tell us about it here. If you have an idea but you're not sure if there's an interest, post it here and others can PM you if they are interested. Please do use the PM to respond to each other - it will be the best way to let new forum owners keep track of who is interested, as well as not cluttering the main topic. Try to format your ideas simply: I am starting "markshair.proboards.com" A discussion group about Mark's hairstyles throughout his career, beginning with the Screaming Trees and including styles he has adopted while working with other bands. Please pm me if you are interested. Something like that should do it.
Please refrain from commenting negatively on the site ideas listed.
Please refrain from posting any angry, spiteful, disappointed, or other nasty remarks here. The main forum will return after revamping. This is not a criticism of any one person or groups of people. We have ALL (myself included) done good and bad on this forum. It is simply time for a change - and for opportunities to open up for people to be part of forums on their own terms, using their own creativity and sensibilities.
Please refrain from publicly badmouthing this forum, the site, or anyone connected with either. Please don't harass anyone connected with the forum over PM or email. It's no one's fault. Say what you want to your friends in private, but please show some class. No one likes a bitter divorce, but a mutual agreement to move on is fine.
Please do continue to support the main site - and help help help me catch it up and fill it up with everything that's been missing these past few years. It is supposed to be for the fans, after all.
Please do post ideas for what you'd like to see on this site when it's revamped - but please think this through. If your idea is big and specific enough to be it's own forum, go for it! If you just want to say you like the chatterbox coffeeshop and want it to stay, say so!
Anything that gets posted to this thread that is angry, hateful, or disrespectful will be removed. It's time to move on. You don't have to defend your point of view now. You don't have to make anyone feel bad, or good. It is what it is, and all that.
Once again, thanks to everyone for your continued support and participation.