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Post by mickyjesus on Dec 16, 2021 17:53:59 GMT -5
Holyshitcantwaittoreadthismrsjesusishopefullygettingmeitforxmascongratsskezzonyournewbornhopeyouandeveryonehaveatopxmas
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Post by skezz on Dec 21, 2021 2:43:17 GMT -5
Holyshitcantwaittoreadthismrsjesusishopefullygettingmeitforxmascongratsskezzonyournewbornhopeyouandeveryonehaveatopxmas Thanks |
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Post by calm ocean on Dec 21, 2021 8:36:53 GMT -5
mine arrived to canada yesterday. won't read it yet, as its a christmas present to myself. merry christmas (or whatever you celebrate) everyone  |
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Post by janeswig on Dec 28, 2021 22:01:04 GMT -5
thanks  what is the drawing that was included with the book, is it in the book,  , that ugly drawing of a creature, i did not read about it i believe. thanks sorry for a stupid question, recovering from being ill |
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Post by Psychotropic Snake on Jan 16, 2022 3:43:53 GMT -5
I'm buying this ASAP. After getting sort of tired of his electronic phase I neglected Straight Songs of Sorrow and now I find about this. Time to catch up.
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Post by tripledistilled on Feb 28, 2022 11:14:48 GMT -5
Been re-reading DIAC since Mark died, just flicking back and forth. It strikes me harder now the references to his childhood, buried deep in the text. His mother. Goddamn, what a horrible story. A mother's violent rejection of her child must be one the worst things that could happen to a child. While he described his family life in SBAW, there's a precise vingette clarity to the couple of events he refers to in DIAC. Plus there's the more joyful remembering of being with his dad as a kid, and how much he was like his father. So poignant - now of course even more.
Anybody hear of Adverse Childhood Experiences Score (ACES)? Psychology standard measure. Mark sounds like he'd have at least 4 or even 5 on that 10-point list of developmental horrors; the likely outcome from such traumas meaning you're more prone to addiction, violence, relationship problems (relating in general), self-esteem issues, depression etc.
There are millions of men like Mark around the world. Angry, troubled, addicted, mean and cruel. Difference, Mark found a way through, and out, through creativity and love. And a LOT of help. Plus a lot of crazy luck, often the rewards of having that gift of a voice. As someone else said here, maybe the cat just used up his nine lives, and was active right to the end. Amen.
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Post by calm ocean on Feb 28, 2022 11:18:02 GMT -5
The last poem in the book hit me hard the first time I read it (prior to Mark's passing). It hits even harder now...
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Post by Stephanie on Feb 28, 2022 13:23:27 GMT -5
The last poem in the book hit me hard the first time I read it (prior to Mark's passing). It hits even harder now... Been re-reading DIAC since Mark died, just flicking back and forth. It strikes me harder now the references to his childhood, buried deep in the text. His mother. Goddamn, what a horrible story. A mother's violent rejection of her child must be one the worst things that could happen to a child. While he described his family life in SBAW, there's a precise vingette clarity to the couple of events he refers to in DIAC. Plus there's the more joyful remembering of being with his dad as a kid, and how much he was like his father. So poignant - now of course even more. Anybody hear of Adverse Childhood Experiences Score (ACES)? Psychology standard measure. Mark sounds like he'd have at least 4 or even 5 on that 10-point list of developmental horrors; the likely outcome from such traumas meaning you're more prone to addiction, violence, relationship problems (relating in general), self-esteem issues, depression etc. There are millions of men like Mark around the world. Angry, troubled, addicted, mean and cruel. Difference, Mark found a way through, and out, through creativity and love. And a LOT of help. Plus a lot of crazy luck, often the rewards of having that gift of a voice. As someone else said here, maybe the cat just used up his nine lives, and was active right to the end. Amen. I ordered it on 2/22 and am bracing myself for the read. As dark as SBAW was, there was also a breezy hilarity at times to it that I suspect will be absent from this one, especially when reading it at this time/in this context. My ACES score is 5, and no one ever laid a hand on me, and my mother wasn't half as crazy/horrible as Lanegan's (though she's certainly no sweetheart either). He's got to be a 7 or 8, minimum, IMO. You could fill in most of those 7 answers from SBAW anyway. Not that it's appropriate or our business to do so. I giggled a bit, embarrassed, reading a quote from this interview WC posted the link to, in which Mark said he liked to come online at times to give various kinds of fans shit, including "the speculators who seem to know the motivation and meaning behind every song lyric." I don't think he very much appreciated our attempts to analyze him... But some of us can't help it, man! It's our own little sorry vice. In one of the articles on complex PTSD I was reading, I came across this quote: Damn if that bolded quote didn't seem to sum up the feel of a lot of Mark's songs... and a feeling I've had at times in my life, too. |
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Post by tripledistilled on Mar 1, 2022 18:01:51 GMT -5
Stephanie - Solidarity with your ACES score. You beat my quasi-middle class ass hands down. "You could fill in most of those 7 answers from SBAW anyway. Not that it's appropriate or our business to do so." Yes, totally, and I'd hate to come across as a wannabe rock critic over-interpretive wanker... though I imagine that's what my ex-wife might say. LOL The Gustafson quote is highly appropriate, for sure. Think most people would admit, if honest enough, they've felt similar at times too. Those depression-filled 20s were great fun, but I was a sad, lonely guy who didn't know himself. Crying into a pillow for years. Damn. And I was so cute! Ha! Music and movies helped me cope. Lanegan/Trees, Tom Waits, Daniel Lanois, Emmylou Harris, Soundgarden, The Doors... all magic, all hail. And so many more... as a old friend who checked out too early said once, music saves lives. OK peace and love n light
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Post by Stephanie on Mar 2, 2022 13:51:59 GMT -5
Stephanie - Solidarity with your ACES score. You beat my quasi-middle class ass hands down. "You could fill in most of those 7 answers from SBAW anyway. Not that it's appropriate or our business to do so." Yes, totally, and I'd hate to come across as a wannabe rock critic over-interpretive wanker... though I imagine that's what my ex-wife might say. LOL The Gustafson quote is highly appropriate, for sure. Think most people would admit, if honest enough, they've felt similar at times too. Those depression-filled 20s were great fun, but I was a sad, lonely guy who didn't know himself. Crying into a pillow for years. Damn. And I was so cute! Ha! Music and movies helped me cope. Lanegan/Trees, Tom Waits, Daniel Lanois, Emmylou Harris, Soundgarden, The Doors... all magic, all hail. And so many more... as a old friend who checked out too early said once, music saves lives. OK peace and love n light My ass is middle class, too. But that's just the thing, isn't it—how the alchemical vessel of a sealed middle-class home with a nuclear family made up of two fucked-up parents can distill such pure chaos and misery. The middle-class motto: as long as no one else knows! My share of it came largely from being raised by two traumatized parents who, like most Boomers, never really dealt with their shit or tried to heal in any deep or meaningful way. One of the most interesting things to me about the current landscape of trauma research is the inheritability of it. I'm fond of the poetic term, "generational curse," but whether one believes in curses or not, there is now pretty stunning proof that our parents pass down their trauma responses to us not even just through learned behavior and influence, but through genes alone. The good news is I'm determined to break the curse & have done a lot of work on myself & am healing well. Just knowing the landscape from my own life, I get a sense that though Lanegan complained sorely of how painful writing his memoir was, it did seem to have a healing effect on him. I mean, I guess the popular lie is that healing feels good from Day One, but the process can be quite painful. You have to go deeper into the underworld if you intend to come up out of it completely. Definitely have had my rounds with depression but now I'm starting to wonder about c-PTSD. I suspect many Lanegan fans who deeply relate to the vibe and themes of his music may have a touch of it. The way it presses you into a fiercely guarded independence and, well, guardedness, the sense of inner emptiness/isolation it can drop you into at times, the existential guilt--feeling guilty without knowing why, so just sort of feeling generally guilty about your existence... finding others wearisome because you can't trust that they will bring anything into your life other than shit... There's a lot of this vibe in "Skeleton Key" and elsewhere in his catalogue. But yes, music and literature and art all heals, in ways that even the best therapy can't. (Though therapy certainly does things for you that art and music can't.) Lanegan is at the center of that, for me. He, Nick Cave, and Greg Dulli are sort of my musical "holy trinity," followed closely behind by Leonard Cohen. Right beside them my other "holy trinity" of Neko Case, Bjork, and Patti Smith. And up there with them are the only other musicians/singers/songwriters whose deaths have even come as close to gutting me as much as Lanegan's—David Bowie and Charles Bradley. Put any of these folks on and I'm better than I was before you did. |
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Post by username2500 on Mar 20, 2022 21:28:18 GMT -5
I finished this book - Devil in a Coma - yesterday, March 19, 2022. I should like to say more. And also read this entire thread. But for now I'll say: it was such a different experience reading this book knowing that Mark had passed than had I read it when it first arrived to me in the mail & Mark was still alive & kicking & breathing. In contrast to reading and KNOWING, no. He didn't live past this tale. He didn't live to see another day. ... But whateverthefuck. It is, things are, what they are.
I appreciate the book. I appreciate the music. I appreciate the meet & greats, the signings after concerts. Thank you Mark! For all that you have done. And for the profound impact. And for the profound impact. Regards. I wish you well.
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Post by tripledistilled on Mar 21, 2022 7:43:52 GMT -5
My ass is middle class, too. But that's just the thing, isn't it—how the alchemical vessel of a sealed middle-class home with a nuclear family made up of two fucked-up parents can distill such pure chaos and misery. The middle-class motto: as long as no one else knows! My share of it came largely from being raised by two traumatized parents who, like most Boomers, never really dealt with their shit or tried to heal in any deep or meaningful way. One of the most interesting things to me about the current landscape of trauma research is the inheritability of it. I'm fond of the poetic term, "generational curse," but whether one believes in curses or not, there is now pretty stunning proof that our parents pass down their trauma responses to us not even just through learned behavior and influence, but through genes alone. The good news is I'm determined to break the curse & have done a lot of work on myself & am healing well. Just knowing the landscape from my own life, I get a sense that though Lanegan complained sorely of how painful writing his memoir was, it did seem to have a healing effect on him. I mean, I guess the popular lie is that healing feels good from Day One, but the process can be quite painful. You have to go deeper into the underworld if you intend to come up out of it completely. Definitely have had my rounds with depression but now I'm starting to wonder about c-PTSD. I suspect many Lanegan fans who deeply relate to the vibe and themes of his music may have a touch of it. The way it presses you into a fiercely guarded independence and, well, guardedness, the sense of inner emptiness/isolation it can drop you into at times, the existential guilt--feeling guilty without knowing why, so just sort of feeling generally guilty about your existence... finding others wearisome because you can't trust that they will bring anything into your life other than shit... There's a lot of this vibe in "Skeleton Key" and elsewhere in his catalogue. But yes, music and literature and art all heals, in ways that even the best therapy can't. (Though therapy certainly does things for you that art and music can't.) Lanegan is at the center of that, for me. He, Nick Cave, and Greg Dulli are sort of my musical "holy trinity," followed closely behind by Leonard Cohen. Right beside them my other "holy trinity" of Neko Case, Bjork, and Patti Smith. And up there with them are the only other musicians/singers/songwriters whose deaths have even come as close to gutting me as much as Lanegan's—David Bowie and Charles Bradley. Put any of these folks on and I'm better than I was before you did. Just caught this. Aha yes, the old mottos and maxims tend to hold true: the sins of the father, born under a bad sign... all code for inter-generational trauma which can be passed by action and/or genetics. I'm heartened to hear about your own progress and awareness around these issues... it's very common but all the best people I know overcoming PTSD or C-PSTD have either therapy, medication, and a lot of open talking about it all. Getting it into words and out of the head is key. At least the Catholics knew that confession works! I was intrigued to read about the autism reference in Lanegan's final messages with Gary Lee Conner (shared on these boards but apparently the original is deleted). That GLC is autistic is almost certain, given all we know about him. Whether Lanegan was, is another thing, because autism can be so different from person to person. But I do know of parental rejection of a child who turns out to be autistic - I think this is a common thing which the child cannot comprehend, and the parents might do on an unconscious level. A huge, inexplicable rejection. Horrific for any child, let alone a mother doing it. Anyway, peace of mind and happy days/daze to you. Spring is here. x |
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, that ugly drawing of a creature, i did not read about it i believe. thanks sorry for a stupid question, recovering from being ill
