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Post by advent on Oct 2, 2006 12:36:22 GMT -5
why dont we kill murders in the same fashion they did their victims? That'd be fair, no?
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Post by Shoesh on Oct 2, 2006 13:24:58 GMT -5
and that would make you all *not* killers or better than killers.. o'tay!
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Post by advent on Oct 2, 2006 13:26:18 GMT -5
there's a thing called self control, which they lack
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Post by jack on Oct 10, 2006 23:44:16 GMT -5
You have got to admire this bloke!!! This is a true story about a recent wedding that took place at Sydney University. It was in the local newspaper and even Alan Jones mentioned it.
It was a huge wedding with about 300 guests. After the wedding at the reception, the groom got up on stage with a microphone to talk to the crowd. He said he wanted to thank everyone for coming, many from long distances, to support them at their wedding.
He especially wanted to thank the bride's and his family and to thank his new father-in-law for providing such a lavish reception. As a token of his deep appreciation he said he wanted to give everyone a special gift just from him. So taped to the bottom of everyone's chair,including the wedding party, was a manila envelope.
He said this was his gift to everyone, and asked them to open their envelope. Inside each manila envelope was an 8x10 glossy of his bride having sex with the best man. The groom had gotten suspicious of them weeks earlier and had hired a private detective to tail them.
After just standing there, just watching the guests' reactions for a couple of minutes,he turned to the best man and said, "F--- you!"
Then he turned to his bride and said "F--- you!" Then he turned to the dumbfounded crowd and said, "I'm out of here."
He had the marriage annulled first thing in the morning. While most people would have cancelled the wedding immediately after finding out about the affair, this guy goes through with the charade, as if nothing were wrong.
His revenge...making the bride's parents pay over $32,000 for a 300 guest wedding an reception, and best of all,trashing the bride's and best man's reputations in front of 300 friends and family members. This guy has balls the size of church bells.
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Post by Lungsey on Oct 11, 2006 5:28:46 GMT -5
i need to throw something into this mix... did you know a very large amount of sex offenders were at one point victims themselves? i know you know this, but we can't seem to accept the full consequence of this when we are dealing with punishment or revenge. I know my views are not populair but i am banking on my pure love for all of you to pull me through this discussion so if we maim or kill a predator what do we do to the victim side of the full story?
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 5:35:20 GMT -5
just because you were molested does not give you an excuse to molest others?
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Post by Lungsey on Oct 11, 2006 5:42:56 GMT -5
psychologically it may not be an excuse to molest others, but it may be a result. Given all the wrong ingredients, victims can turn into predators whether we like it or not. The discussion gets harder when you can no longer see things black and white.
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 6:02:31 GMT -5
I cant speak from a victim turned predator's point of view, but to me it seems like an excuse and a lame justification and a way for someone to not be accountable for their own actions
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 6:22:51 GMT -5
oh and another thing.....what about the murder piece of this whole scenario? was he murdered as a child too?
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Post by advent on Oct 11, 2006 6:38:55 GMT -5
psychologically it may not be an excuse to molest others, but it may be a result. Given all the wrong ingredients, victims can turn into predators whether we like it or not. The discussion gets harder when you can no longer see things black and white. I turned out fine oh and another thing.....what about the murder piece of this whole scenario? was he murdered as a child too? g00d p0int
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Post by Lungsey on Oct 11, 2006 6:49:15 GMT -5
I think through television we were led to believe all predators are cold hearted selfish people only out for their own pleasure no matter the cost. I'm not saying these people do not excist, they do and they are catogorised into certain mental illnesses. But we seldom get to see the other, much larger part of this group of predators. The ones struggling against the odds trying to not fall back. The ones that do own up to their own accountability and that try to live their lives after they paid their debt to society.
I truly think the thing we should try and do, is not see things black or white. Not all predators are happily fullfilling their every wish, and not all predators are troubled ex-victims that try to be better but can't help themselves. There is such a huge diversity of people, of crimes, of backgrounds, how could we just split this whole thing into either good or bad?
I know i am in a way privileged because i did work with sex-offenders (and all kinds of other criminals) and i can see the human side to them. Then again, maybe it is a curse because it is hard to see both sides to the story. Especially if you have been touched by offenders, if they moved in on yours, the intention to see both sides is a huge thing to ask. I have some experience in this as a victim and i find it my biggest task in life to see the other side to the story.
I could recommand "the Woodsman" - it is the best movie i have ever seen that works around the victim/predator theme.
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Post by Lungsey on Oct 11, 2006 6:52:52 GMT -5
oh and another thing.....what about the murder piece of this whole scenario? was he murdered as a child too? i wasn't really talking about this scenario, i am talking about the whole criminal/predator versus punishment issue. montage sweetie, die pointed this out earlier... you did turn out fine but don't you forget you have us to thank for that ;D guys i have to get going, work in an hours time. m0ng0 i understand where you're coming from... you know i do catch ya soon (and i may even unbl0ck y0u from msn, don't think i didn't read that you bastard)
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 6:53:58 GMT -5
well this p00r tortured soul molested AND killed a 10 year old girl
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 6:56:15 GMT -5
psychologically it may not be an excuse to molest others, but it may be a result. Given all the wrong ingredients, victims can turn into predators whether we like it or not. The discussion gets harder when you can no longer see things black and white. I turned out fine oh and another thing.....what about the murder piece of this whole scenario? was he murdered as a child too? g00d p0int and montage I am really sorry to hear that, but does it possibly make you feel like you could NEVER do something like that to someone else BECAUSE of what happened unfortunately to you?
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Post by advent on Oct 11, 2006 7:17:50 GMT -5
I turned out fine g00d p0int and montage I am really sorry to hear that, but does it possibly make you feel like you could NEVER do something like that to someone else BECAUSE of what happened unfortunately to you? Yeah, I've never really talked to anyone about it, but I came to terms with it. It wasn't my fault, they were a messed up individual. What happened in no way reflects me, or should change who I am. It did give me a whole lot of hate for such people, so don't be surprised if you get no sympathy from me.
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Post by dimples... on Oct 11, 2006 10:30:09 GMT -5
don't be surprised if you get no sympathy from me. Me too... I hate this victim mentality BS... Once the line is crossed they cannot be reformed... They will lie and try to convince themselves and others they can but that is not facts... The cycle must end... If not death then they should never see the light of day again to harm another... I don't need to study anyone or anything to know the truth of it... I have met it... I have seen it... It is fucked... P... S... I'll try not to delete this one...
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Post by thatweirdpeichill on Oct 11, 2006 14:00:22 GMT -5
Can I get involved in this one?
Here's why we can't kill killers and molestors: does anyone know for sure whether that criminal is actually guilty? No one can say for sure. Witnesses lie, victims lie. Whether intentional or not intentional, victims and witnesses don't always tell the truth. What does guilty even mean? It doesn't mean you did anything, it means a jury of your peers decide you are guilty.
I know first hand. A male friend of mine did some time in jail. He was accused of a sex crime by a female I also knew at the time. If he had of plead guilty from the start, he probably would have had to serve weekends for about 4 months and this would have been all behind hime by now. But since he's maintained his innocence, he served over a year in prison and the case is still ongoing. She maintains that she was assaulted, he maintains his innocence. It's pretty unfair how people can lie about innocent people and get away with it. There is no way I can know for sure who is telling the truth, but things like this happen everyday and there are lots of innocent people serving time.
Just watch the Shawshank Redemption or the Green Mile if you don't believe me.
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 14:05:11 GMT -5
yep we should abolish jails too.........those vicitms all lied I mean yeah people lie so its not fair to sentence anyone to jail either......oh yeah and confessions are c0erced, the cops just beat that ass until he squeals like a pig too, and yes judges are corrupt, lawyers are all scum, the juries are all bought and paid for
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Post by thatweirdpeichill on Oct 11, 2006 14:12:41 GMT -5
I agree. There should be immediate payback allowed and nothing else. If you see someone commit a crime, then BANG they're dead no questions asked. No second chances.
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 14:13:52 GMT -5
oh yeah witnesses all lie too, and polygraphs are v00d00 bullshit, dna evidence is all rigged to
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Post by gr0undzer0 on Oct 11, 2006 14:15:05 GMT -5
yes and video tapes are all doctored by michael moore
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Post by thatweirdpeichill on Oct 11, 2006 14:16:47 GMT -5
HEY! Stop ruining this serious discussion! www.psychologymatters.org/polygraphs.htmlMost psychologists agree that there is little evidence that polygraph tests can accurately detect lies. Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability.
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New Recruit
Posts: 0
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Post by on Oct 11, 2006 14:19:25 GMT -5
Did you know that most Criminals declare they are innocent?Most of the guys sitting on death row do, and they appeal their convictions to the death. The thing is only about 5% of people in prison are innocent, it's like everything in life there is fault, but I wouldn't say that all of the people in prison are innocent either.DNA seems to be clearing that up. The irony that gets me about men on death row is they usually don't want to die eventhough they have committed henious crimes of murder. I believe that rehibilitaion is pointless and that most sex offenders recommit their crimes, so I have no justification for someone who says they were once victims too. That's BS! There have been pedophiles who have been convicted and have decided to be castrized and later refused to do so. There are pedophiles who believe that it's theri sexual preferance to have sex with children. The only thing they don't see is that sex is consentual and having sex with children is rape. I don't even consider pedophilia as an illness like alcholism or drug addiction, there is no hope for rehibilitation.
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Post by thatweirdpeichill on Oct 11, 2006 14:22:20 GMT -5
Alcoholism and drug addictions aren't illnesses.
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Post by thatweirdpeichill on Oct 11, 2006 14:24:29 GMT -5
And sorry if it seemed like I was making excuses for obviously guilty people. All I meant to say is that there are innocent people who are in jail only because of a false accusation.
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