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Tom Waits
Aug 14, 2014 10:06:08 GMT -5
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Post by singularity1 on Aug 14, 2014 10:06:08 GMT -5
I hear a lot of similarities being made between Mark and Tom so I have 2 questions:
1- Should I listen to Tom Waits? 2 - If so, what record/s should I start with?
Thanks
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Post by silence on Aug 14, 2014 11:14:10 GMT -5
I'd start at the start and work through - there's an Original Album series thing that has the 1st 4 for a good price and they're all stellar.
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Post by leisureman on Aug 14, 2014 11:40:15 GMT -5
First time I heard Tom I had just been dumped and a friend gave me a copy of "Small Change". Years later I can't even remember her name but I have every Tom record there is! I would start there.
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Post by digitaltwilight on Aug 14, 2014 13:26:46 GMT -5
My recommendation is 'Mule Variations' - it's a later album but it has a nice variety and shows many sides of what Tom Waits is about.
Early years - 'The Heart of Saturday Night' - This was my first Tom album.
'Rain Dogs' tends to be held as his best by many fans but it's a very tough call.
There are many great Waits albums but those 3 are where my journey started along with 'Heartattack and Vine'.
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Lucy
Novice
Posts: 81
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Post by Lucy on Aug 14, 2014 13:31:23 GMT -5
1. Yes you should. It's best to listen to him in the winter. 2. All of his albums are great but you have to be in the right mood. I like Real Gone. There are a couple of songs on that album I would love to hear ML cover
I don't really understand the comparisons with Mark. Their voices are different. Both write complex, evocative lyrics with somewhat depressing themes so maybe that is why people like to say they are similar.
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Post by digitaltwilight on Aug 14, 2014 13:46:31 GMT -5
I figured it was just the voice. Mark is amazing but he doesn't write lyrics like Tom does. then again, who does?
You're in for a hell of a journey discovering Waits.
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Post by silence on Aug 14, 2014 13:56:14 GMT -5
Seems to be a good excuse to post this anyway And there's also NyanWaits for anyone still pining for memes from 3 years ago.
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Post by kingdomsofrain on Aug 14, 2014 18:14:04 GMT -5
I hear a lot of similarities being made between Mark and Tom so I have 2 questions: 1- Should I listen to Tom Waits? 2 - If so, what record/s should I start with? Thanks Firstly its important to realise and later acknowledge that there are no similarities between Mark Lanegan and Tom Waits, none whatsoever. Claims such as this are usually the result of desperate reviewers clutching at straws the same way they compare bands and try to fit them neatly into already established genres. Its lazy and reductionist. Both their voices are deeper than average, THATS IT! Their voices are completely different in terms of timbre, tone, pitch, phrasing, harmonies etc etc. The songwriting is wildly different, the lyrics, the instrumentation, the production etc etc. Now to answer your questions 1 - Absolutely, he is one of the greatest. He is his own genre and an incredible live act! 2 - My best Tom Waits amazon list is here: www.amazon.co.uk/lm/RPOX1HVQ2C30C/ref=cm_pdp_lm_title_2There are several distinct stylistic phases of Tom waits work making it difficult to advise on specific albums. In my mind and without going into more detail at this juncture they are: 1971-1974, 1975-1982, 1983-1988, 1992-1999, 2002-present. The last of these phases is arguably the most controversial. Many people like only specific phases of Tom's work. I like it all but it took time to fully appreciate it. Like Mark i like Tom Live! My Waits boots are linked below, there are about 200 plus discs worth but i have many more that i haven't added to the list yet from my days on that great lost tape trading site the rhinedogs. My list is linked below: db.etree.org/mrmojorising7I wont bore the thread any longer but PM me if you want more detailed thoughts/opinions. Hope this helps a little.
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Post by blacktrain on Aug 18, 2014 3:56:42 GMT -5
I agree with kingdomsofrain that comparisons between Lanegan and Waits are just an expression of some reviewers' utter incompetence.
If you're going to listen to just one Waits record, I think it should be Rain Dogs.
That's my two cents.
P.S. If forced to find a meaningful commonality between Waits and Lanegan, I would say this: They are both very funny.
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Post by LostCause on Aug 18, 2014 7:36:59 GMT -5
Huge Tom Waits fan. Had the extreme pleasure of seeing Tom live on two occasions and his live shows are amazing. Bone Machine got me into Tom and has always been my most favorite. Heart of a Saturday Night, Small Change and Closing Time are my favorites from the early years (Early Years 1 & 2 are great as well). Nighthawks at the Diner is way cool. All of the 80s stuff is great. Mule Variations is top notch. Some of it (The Black Rider) can be a little difficult to digest at times but I usually come around.
I also think Tom and Mark are a little enigmatic as well. They are certainly not open books and and at times elusive. It is just people wanting to put labels on artists. Marks voice is much smoother but I have shows where he sounds very horse and could sit in with a Tom Waits cover band.
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Post by leisureman on Aug 18, 2014 13:45:49 GMT -5
While not defending ignorant and facile comparisons by unimaginative reviews I would say that there are moments or moods that I get into as a listener for which either artist is appropriate (hmm, I am pissed and pissed off and a little melancholy this evening, should I put on Rain Dogs or Bubblegum?). My Mom once overhead me listening to Tom and said "God, that music is so depressing. It makes me want to hang myself." My wife said the same thing about Dark Mark. Both have deep roots in the blues and my theory is that the only way to get rid of the blues is to listen to someone who's got them worse than you. Mark gives the same amount of consideration, ruefulness, dignity and affirmation to an overdose as Tom does to a bender and the subsequent hangover. Both have truly and willingly plumbed depths of self-destructive behavior that (hopefully) few us of will ever bring upon ourselves and have made it out the other side intact and alive. Both are incredibly creative with sound and not afraid to experiment and fuck with the formula, Tom with all of his recent transformations and homemade instrument sounds and Mark with his incorporation of drum machines and synth to his recent work. Love them both and have leaned on their music heavily during hard times. Couldn't imagine a world without either!
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Post by leisureman on Aug 18, 2014 13:55:09 GMT -5
BTW LostCause - I'm super jealous as I have been a fan for years and have never gotten to see Tom perform. Lucky you!
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Post by ken on Aug 18, 2014 15:20:15 GMT -5
Back to the original questions:
1) you'll have gathered by now that; of course you should listen to Tom Waits. As Kingdoms of Rain said, he's hard to pigeon hole. Somewhere between Howlin' Wolf and Beefheart, but neither comparison does justice. 2) many are truly great. Raindogs, Swordfishtrombones, probably my favourites, but I started with these and a mate had Blue Valentine which is also great, if somewhat jazzier. You may learn a little from the great bluesy tracks on YouTube - In the Neighborhood, I Don't Want to Grow Up etc
And of course many have covered Tom Waits without improving on the original. Rod Stewart, Bruce Springsteen etc.
Also v jealous of Lost Cause!
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Lucy
Novice
Posts: 81
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Post by Lucy on Aug 20, 2014 15:58:51 GMT -5
Insanely jealous of Lost Cause.
I'm green and steam is coming out of my ears.
Sure wish that Mark would cover a couple of Tom Waits songs. Green Grass would be lovely. On the other hand I don't want Tom Waits to sing any of Mark's original songs. His voice is too scratchy and cynical.
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Post by digitaltwilight on Aug 21, 2014 5:29:50 GMT -5
Yep, count me green too. Never had the chance to experience him live but I hope he one day comes back to Europe. Green Grass would be a wonderful cover. I love this cover by Chris Cornell for House where nobody lives www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3PFlLdY79w
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13977
Initiate
Posts: 185
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Post by 13977 on Aug 21, 2014 7:19:38 GMT -5
Yes Tom Waits is great you should definitely check him out. Mule Variations and Heartattack and Vine are two of my favourite albums, but as someone else said you may be best starting at the beginning and working you way through his albums. I got into Tom Waits when I saw The Dissociatives cover Goin Out West live at The Leadmill in Sheffield in 2005ish. I checked him out based off that and loved him ever since. Ash Grunwald and QOTSA have also done excellent covers of Goin Out West.
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Lucy
Novice
Posts: 81
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Post by Lucy on Aug 21, 2014 12:32:44 GMT -5
While not defending ignorant and facile comparisons by unimaginative reviews I would say that there are moments or moods that I get into as a listener for which either artist is appropriate (hmm, I am pissed and pissed off and a little melancholy this evening, should I put on Rain Dogs or Bubblegum?). My Mom once overhead me listening to Tom and said "God, that music is so depressing. It makes me want to hang myself." My wife said the same thing about Dark Mark. Both have deep roots in the blues and my theory is that the only way to get rid of the blues is to listen to someone who's got them worse than you. Mark gives the same amount of consideration, ruefulness, dignity and affirmation to an overdose as Tom does to a bender and the subsequent hangover. Both have truly and willingly plumbed depths of self-destructive behavior that (hopefully) few us of will ever bring upon ourselves and have made it out the other side intact and alive. Both are incredibly creative with sound and not afraid to experiment and fuck with the formula, Tom with all of his recent transformations and homemade instrument sounds and Mark with his incorporation of drum machines and synth to his recent work. Love them both and have leaned on their music heavily during hard times. Couldn't imagine a world without either! They are both perfect for broody moods. Tom is better for general 'the world sucks and so does everyone in it' kind of universal anger and cynicism. Mark's music is better used for more personal moodiness of the relationship variety. I listen to Mark much more than I do Tom. Tom's music makes me feel kind of agitated and depressed. Mark's has a calming effect and makes me feel less alone-like ahh someone else has been through this and understands. Listening to dark music during hard times is strangely uplifting. Either that or I'm just plain weird.
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Post by digitaltwilight on Aug 21, 2014 15:00:31 GMT -5
Not weird at all Lucy. I think because the music matches your mood it has a certain level of comfort, a connectivity to justify what you're feeling.
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Post by LostCause on Aug 22, 2014 7:23:37 GMT -5
As far as seeing Tom live I was lucky. The last tour he did just happened to come to the town I lived in (St Louis at the beautiful Fox Theater) and the US Tour for Mule Variation came to Chicago and I was lucky enough to score two tickets. He certainly changes things up in concert. Not much was done that was obvious from the first notes what song he was playing. He is a mood setter. I remember sitting next to some older people (probably my age now HA)that had not seen him since the late 70s and they were excited to see him again. I asked if that had heard any of his music over the last 20 years. They said no. I said this will be an interesting evening for you then. He did not play much of the old catalog (He did play Ol 55 at the Chicago show which he only played once in the US that tour) but was heavy on everything after "The Transformation" he went through in the 80s.
I have always been very envious of the people here for being able to see Mark or the Trees so many times because I did not. Luckily I have had the opportunity to see the last couple tours in Chicago. I know that Tom does not and has not toured to much and needed to make the most of the opportunities. I would not if it is in my power miss an opportunity to see Tom or Mark.
I nearly had a chance encounter with Tom in town near where he lives when I was there for a wedding with my wife.
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Post by mickyjesus on Aug 26, 2014 19:35:33 GMT -5
I was browsing the shops and Uncut magazine have issued one of their ultimate music guides on guess who!!!. And assuming you live in this wonderful, fantastic country we call England (ahem) my friend, it will cost 8 or 9 of your pounds(I think). And there all your questions will be answered.
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